Tuesday, July 7, 2009

Of Hitler and Darwin

I posted a comment on Bria's blog a few days ago and received a lengthy response from a gentleman named Corey, which you can read here.

Rather than clog Bria's comments with such a lengthy reply, I thought I'd post it here instead.
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Corey,

Your comment covered a lot of ground, and I don't think I'll be able to respond directly to all of it... but I would like to address some of the main points.

1. Of course racism and genocide existed before Darwin. In fact, there were even attempts at scientific defense of these practices well before Darwin, as noted by Stephen Jay Gould in his 1977 book Ontogeny and Phylogeny: "Biological arguments for racism may have been common before 1850, but they increased by orders of magnitude following the acceptance of evolutionary theory."

I never suggested that Darwin was the father of all racism, merely that his theory on origins is inescapably racist. At the very least this is true in the historical sense. Modern Darwinian thinkers have tried to distance themselves from racist philosophy by referring to "ethnicity" rather than race; which I think is a wise move on their part. But this modern adjustment of terminology does not absolve the Darwinian School of atrocities committed against Australian Aborigines and other primitive tribes in the name of science (going so far as to put one Congolese man, Ota Benga, on display in the Bronx Zoo), the eugenics movement (particularly the efforts of Francis Galton and Margaret Sanger), and, I maintain, the attempts at refining a Master Race under Hitler.

Incidentally, your assertion that racism and slavery have seen a decline since Darwin's time is patently untrue. Anti-Slavery groups and analysts around the globe estimate the number of enslaved humans worldwide at anywhere from 20 to 200 million persons; which, even at the low end rivals or exceeds the greatest enslavements of history. The vast majority of these are in Asia and Africa, where much of the bondage and abuse is ethno-centric... ironically, in a geographic area where the ethnic diversity would seem comparatively minor!

2. Notwithstanding your quotations as to the motivation behind Hitler's actions, I would argue that he operated from a profoundly Darwinian ethic. In Mein Kampf he stated, "If reproduction as such is limited and the number of births decreased, then the natural struggle for existence, which only allows the strongest and healthiest to survive, will be replaced by the obvious desire to save at any cost even the weakest and sickest; thereby a progeny is produced, which must become ever more miserable, the longer this mocking of nature and its will persists.... A stronger race will supplant the weaker, since the drive for life in its final form will decimate every ridiculous fetter of the so-called humaneness of individuals, in order to make place for the humaneness of nature, which destroys the weak to make place for the strong." (emphasis mine)

This seems to me the very essence of Darwinian evolution: The weak must make way for the strong. I would also refer you to pages 113-115 here.

3. I will join you in your condemnation of religious bigotry and hypocrisy; which I see evidenced both in Hitler and in many of the events surrounding the Crusaders and Conquistadors... though we would probably disagree on many of the particulars. However, I vehemently disagree that creationism is even remotely based upon such bigotry.

My views on the origins of mankind, and indeed all other elements of the created order, are based upon the Inspired account of Genesis, and backed by plenty of good science. This approach is religious, to be sure, but not bigoted until I completely refuse to give any hearing to other views... which, I trust this exchange of comments will preclude.


~Daniel~

6 comments:

Bria Cosper said...

Well said Mr. Ferrel!!! Another post coming up today on Darwin.

Corey said...

I have been meaning to respond to your posting, Daniel.

Your implication that Darwinism is racist is incorrect.

Darwinian theory, like every other scientific theory, is descriptive. Physics tells us that the stars will all burn out eventually.

Evolutionary biology tells us that organisms compete for survival. Does this mean that competition is good and cooperation is bad? Anyone attempting to derive morality from a scientific theory is making a profound category error.

Hitler believed that the sun rises in the east and that water runs downhill. Should we therefore reject those “theories” as well?

Suppressing a theory because of its consequences is to make the same mistake the Church made regarding heliocentrism. They felt that heliocentrism was a challenge to the authority of scripture, and must therefore be suppressed, regardless of the evidence.

Although there are countries that still have slavery, these are based on regional, religious and philosophical views rather than Western, Darwinism or secular views.

You impied that "survival of the fittest" is a bad thing. Evolution is descriptive. It tells how things are, not how they should be.

Humans, being social, improve their fitness through cooperation with other people. Even if survival of the fittest were taken as a basis for morals, it would imply treating other people well.

Nowhere does Hitler make a direct reference to Darwin or evolution to his views.

There are creationists who have held racist views including:

Louis Agassiz, who denied blacks and white are the same species.

George MacCready Price, who viewed that blacks are a degenerate form of homo sapiens.

Henry Morris, who argue that the "genetic character" of Hamites" are often "displaced by the intellectual and phiosophical of Japhethites and religious zeal of Semites."

JNoah said...

Daniel, just wanted to let you know I finally found your blog. Not sure if you can link it just from my name, but it's http://www.mozhna.blogspot.com/.
"Mozhna" is a Russian word that means "may I."

Daniel said...

Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back to you, Corey.

Since we're being direct I'd like to point out that I didn't "imply" anything about Darwinism being racist. I stated it; and I stand by my statement. But since we could both apparently go round and round in circles debating the merit of assorted evidence for and against my statement for quite awhile, I'm far more curious to know why my original comment on Bria's blog bothered you so much in the first place.

You stated that it is a "profound category error" to attempt to derive morality from a scientific theory. I would say that even if you personally don't want to build your system of morality on your science; our views on origins impact our morality tremendously. If a man adheres to an evolutionary model that denies the existence of God, his morals and ethics must inevitably be very different from a man who believes that an eternal omnipotent God created the world and governs its inhabitants... don't you think?

Regardless of your answer to that question, I presume that like me, you believe racism to be wrong at some level, else it would be rather odd for you to have pursued this dialogue thus far. But if evolution is only descriptive and not proscriptive; on what do you base this belief?

For my part, much as I respect Henry Morris I disagree with what I understand to be his assessment of the so-called "Curse of Ham", and would argue from Genesis 1:26-27 that all men, regardless of parentage, are created in the image of God. Further, Acts 17:26 states that God "...made of one blood all nations of men..." Thus virtually all ethnocentric prejudice (or "racism" in common parlance) is at root a denial of man's status as the bearer of God's image, and thereby a denial of God's Word itself.

But again, if it is a "profound category error" to derive morality from science, from whence does your morality derive? In other words, what is your standard for determining whether something (like racism) is right or wrong?

Corey said...

Daniel,

It is your ignorance to conclude that evolution excludes God. I do not care whether you believe in God, but I care that you know the facts about what evolution is and is not.

I get my morals, just like everybody else including yourself, from my conscience. I do not need a book to tell me how to feel and how to think. I have an educated mind. I research. I have knowledge. I live life, istead of fearing it.

Daniel said...

Corey,

Frankly I'm surprised that you felt a need to jump so quickly to such unfounded conclusions, and genuinely disappointed that you would turn so rapidly to flagrant ad hominem attacks.

I never stated categorically that all branches of evolution deny the existence of God. I merely posed a hypothetical question: "If a man adheres to an evolutionary model that denies the existence of God..." But since you chose to attack my intelligence rather than answer or even argue the question, I can't see that we have a great deal of ground remaining for civil, rational discussion.

Unfortunately, I don't have time to check this blog on a daily basis, so I've turned on comment moderation in an effort to keep the comments more gentlemanly moving forward. If you change your mind about pursuing a logical discussion free of personal attacks, please let me know.

One parting thought both for you and other readers from Proverbs 1:7, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction."